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I think Tomiki Aikido is better than all the rest! |
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John 
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Joined: 12 Jul 2008 Location: New Milton Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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 Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 1:07pm |
I do have an open mind to all styles of Aikido, but as a traditional (or Ueshiba style) aikidoka I do not consider Tomiki as a form of Aikido. He was a Judo player that moved over to Aikido, when he could not get O'sensei to turn Aikido into a sport!. He went off and did his own thing. (Actually, I have no problem with that.)
O'sensei said there is enough competition in every day life, competition in Aikido would not work.
Tomiki was a crossbreed between Judo and Aikido and would be better named Jukido than Aikido. Or just Tomiki then it would regain its pedigree.
A horse crossed with a donkey is a mule and will never be anything but a mule.
It was you that started your thread by saying that Tomiki is the best. Not I.
So it would seem it is you, that has the closed mind.
It was also you that compared Tomiki with Aikido, yet Tomiki is just a sport!
I have no problem with that either until you call Tomiki 'Aikido'. It is not - you may use some similar techniques but it is not Aikido.
I have tried Tomiki, with a few different teachers: the first was Sensei Useless by name and nature, he tried nikkyo on me but could not make it work, nor could any on the weekend course at Sandhurst near Camberley; (but they hopped about a bit when I did it).
John  |
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A guy asked a girl to marry him but the girl said NO so he lived happily ever after
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John
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Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 3:58pm |
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A guy asked a girl to marry him but the girl said NO so he lived happily ever after
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SteveBillett
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Joined: 30 Jun 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6668 |
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Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 1:11pm |
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Great. But make sure you listern all the way through
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Steve Billett 6th Dan Tomiki
Chairman Aikido Development Society |
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John
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Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 6:40pm |
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O I did, nothing about Tomiki, just Aikido!
In sport you are trying to better some one, winnings is all.
John  Edited by John - 19 Jul 2008 at 10:54am |
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A guy asked a girl to marry him but the girl said NO so he lived happily ever after
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Shaun Hoddy
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Joined: 18 Jul 2008 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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Posted: 19 Jul 2008 at 11:27am |
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I am not sure that a controversial debate on what style of Aikido is best is a good way of promoting Aikido. Aikido practice is a very personal thing people practice for various reasons.
Ueshiba's Aikido changed throughout the years the early uchidechi such a Tomiki 1926, Mochizuki 1930 and Shioda 1932 were exposed to techniques from the Aikibudo period as Aikido was not officially registered untill 1942.
The various styles came about by Ueshiba's uchidechi having their own approach to Aikido, This process has happened all over the world and will continual to happen with people braking away from various organisations, the UK is a prime example of this with 37 associations affiliated to the BAB, other than a handfall most do not affiliate or issue Aikikai or the various hombu dan grade menjo.
Tomiki Aikido being a cross between Judo & Aikido no not really. Kenji Tomiki was a professor of physical education, his approach was to systemise aikido into a logical curriculum he followed the educational principles of Judo by putting Aikido techniques in to Kata groups. The system constist of the Randori No Kata, RNK Ura waza and the Koryu No Kata Dai Ichi to Dai Rokku.
Competitive Aikido is only a small part of the system there are many Tomiki Aikido who have moved through the grades without taking part in competitions. Tomiki thought by introducing a competitive eliment to his system this would encourage young people to practice Aikido once introduced the deeper aspects of Aikido can be studied.
This week my students are studying Aikikai under the instruction of Paul Wiffen Ju Shin kai Singapore 2nd Dan So Hombu. Paul was a student of mine untill he move to Singapore ten years ago. at the end of the day its all Aiki.
Shaun Edited by Shaun Hoddy - 28 Jul 2008 at 11:34am |
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aikiman
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Posted: 19 Jul 2008 at 6:15pm |
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This is all interesting, whether aikido is a sport or not; I see that another chat forum (aikidochatforum.com) is also discussing this issue.
Personally, I have only ever seen Tomiki-style aikido on video - never yet having the opportunity to practice with a Tomiki club. (Perhaps in the future, given the chance.)
So, it would be interesting to know, as a relative 'newcomer' (4yrs exp.), why the BAB chose to connect itself to the Sports council 30 years ago, and whether having a Tomiki element is required for this connection. (I presume that the other styles promote their martial art side instead.)
Anyway, as said, I still do not know what the difference is: Is sport COMPETITION, and art NOT? Some say that they practice a sport, and then say that they do not compete.
 So sport is NOT competition? If so, is sport Physical Exercise? Then some say that they do not really get fit doing it (I haven't lost any weight yet, sadly ) Then some say: no! sport is FUN (as in NOT WORK, or as in leisure activity); but, martial activities are not fun when practicing for reality! OK, so I'm confused by all this thread - and then, to cap it all, some say it's like the Salvation Army (from the video clip) without any necessary physical technique! (dare I say it is a religion or a Way?) So, what is Tomiki? IS it a sport? Or is it just another Sensei's APPROACH to aikido like all the other styles? (as Shaun suggests).
Oh, well! - I once thought that I knew what I was doing in Aikido, now I feel totally 'shiho-naged' in more than 4-directions!
 Still, agreed, this has got the forum off to a start, Steve. Greetings to you all.
Aikiman
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Paul Jones
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 1:05pm |
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These types of comment remind me of those found on the more general Martial Arts forums whereby certain types of individual make declarations of how Aikido itself isn't a Martial Art and doesn't work etc . It's a shame someone professing to practice 'Ueshiba Style' Aikido unfortunately doesn't demonstrate the same type of tolerance that O Sensei himself did.I am a Tomiki Aikido Dan grade but have also recently started training with one of Christian Tissier's (Aikikai 7th Dan) long term students and can vouch for the quality and effectiveness of both 'Traditional' AND Tomiki/Shodokan styles of Aikido. It is also worth noting he has chosen to train in a Tomiki club in the UK and rates highly both the club and standard of Aikido practised there.
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Aiki
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 8:30pm |
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Tomiki Aikido, Yoshinkan Aikido, Ki-Aikido, Aikikai, Iwama-Ryu Aikido and many more are all Aikido to me. |
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London Aikido Dojo
http://www.londonaikido.com "Always practice the Art of Peace in a vibrant and joyful manner." quote from The Art of Peace by M. Ueshiba. Beginners always welcome |
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Yoshi
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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 10:58am |
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Lame Tomiki player never give us any problems when they come to our club. We just turn our forward foot out, lock our back leg and give it to them for real. |
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SteveBillett
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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 12:23pm |
Hi Yoshi
I would like to reply to you saying, Then you have never met good quality Tomiki players, But I am not that rude.
Please remember that you will find good and bad artists in all Sports, Arts and even life, Never judge everyone by one encounter, You never know when you will find someone better than you.
This happened to me many years ago when I started Aikido, I walked into a club in London and asked to practise, They said yes so I got changed into my Judo Gi, Oh they said have you done Aikido before. No I said Judo.
On the mat they preceded to try and prove that Aikido was better than Judo. At first I just played the game and went with them, But as the evening progressed my pride over took me and in the end fought back using using the skills of my Judo.
The outcome was a lot of Aikido Players who had learn how to breakfall properly. At the end of the evening the Sensei who had been very quite during the class decide to introduce me to the class because he had recognised me as a current European Judo champion. He told his class that he was very disappointed in how they had treated me and was surprised I had been so gentle with them.
As you may have guessed I decided that this particular club was not for me. But in my youth I did enjoy proving I was better than them, It was not Judo against Aikido, It was a very very fit 20 year old man who trained 7 days a week against a group of people who trained once a week. My objection to them was attitude not their skill level........
I would like to hope that Aikido players of all styles would be more open to each other
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Steve Billett 6th Dan Tomiki
Chairman Aikido Development Society |
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SteveBillett wrote: